The Salad (Tossing) Days with with Lloyd Kaufman

[Music]

Lloyd Kaufman

Greetings from Tromaville. This is Lloyd Kaufman, president of Troma Entertainment, creator of the Toxic Avenger and professional foot fetishist. You're listening to Talkin' Troma with Zack Beins, but the actual way to pronounce it is Zach Beans, like Hill of Beans. And let

Lloyd Kaufman

me tell you, the Talkin' Troma webcast is a podcast. You don't need to see it. It's so visual in your ears. In fact, you can taste it. Talkin' Troma by Zack Beans. Thank you,

Lloyd Kaufman

ladies and gentlemen.

Zack Beins

Good morning Tromaville and welcome to the season finale of season two of Talkin' Troma with your host me, Zack Beins. This is a very special episode, one that I've been waiting to do for a while. But before I really crack into anything, I want to thank everybody who's been out there supporting the show,

Zack Beins

listening, reaching out on the social medias. I definitely appreciate that. And I got some big news for the show. I'm going to announce it here. But it has been picked up by the Loudspeaker Network. So what that means is I will get some better equipment to record with so the shows will sound better.

Zack Beins

They'll actually have an audio engineer so they will sound better than what I'm doing on my own. And just some more research resources. It's pretty exciting. Um, I can't wait for, for that. And they're gonna be bringing season three, uh, coming to your air hole shortly.

Zack Beins

Um, so stay tuned for that, but really let's crack into why we're all here. And let's, let's hear my, uh, my, uh, interview with the man himself. Mr. Lloyd Kaufman.

Lloyd Kaufman

hotel with the troma team from Denver, including Maggie, AKA Super Tromette- [LAUGHTER] Dysmorphia. Dysmorphia.

Zack Beins

That's better than the last tromette name you gave her. Do you remember that one?

Dysmorphia

I chose my own.

Lloyd Kaufman

Thank you. Yeah, you are very intellectual, Dysmorphia. You read a lot, I know. But is that why you think you have a big vocabulary? or is it your folks or something? But you must read a lot, no joke. Yeah, yeah.

Dysmorphia

How to Make Movies by Lloyd Kaufman. (laughing) How to Make Your Own Damn Movie. Oh, thank you. And Where the Red Foot Grows.

Zack Beins

I can't read that, that makes me cry when they kill the dogs. There's only one other time I cried when a dog was killed. Old Yeller? I was gonna say Toxic Avenger. No, I can't handle it in like,

Zack Beins

I mean in Toxic Avenger it's comical, but I can't handle whenever like they're killing animals in something. I don't wanna watch that. (laughing) I agree.

Unknown

I don't recommend you watch Wes Anderson movies 'cause he hates you for that.

Zack Beins

I don't recommend Wes Anderson movies is 'cause he is pretentious. What?

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh, come on now. Do you like, well- Now you have to take that out. You're going to get canceled for that. I, I was already,

Zack Beins

uh, canceled when I was in film school, there was the kids who wanted to make reservoir dogs. There's the kids who wanted to make Wes Anderson movies. And then there was me and Richard who wanted to make trauma movies. And so we were canceled.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes. Yeah. What about Maggie?

Zack Beins

You want to make though in film school? Music videos are fun. I love making music videos. And live was very difficult to sync up.

Lloyd Kaufman

Maybe Maggie can come closer and get part-

Zack Beins

No, I'm gonna record something with Maggie later. I'm just giving him a bunch of shit.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, no, it makes it more entertaining that way.

Dysmorphia

No, no, Lloyd, this is gonna be you and me.

Lloyd Kaufman

Stupidest questions and my answers are gonna be totally worthless, so you actually have a brain here and it'd be nice-

Dysmorphia

We just can't forget that we went to film school together.

Zack Beins

No, it's true, we did. And Maggie was one of the few people, well actually it's funny 'cause we met on Cannibal Girl and Incest Boy. She was.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh,

Zack Beins

how romantic. Yeah, so.

Dysmorphia

It was a misled romance.

Lloyd Kaufman

(laughing) Who, I can't remember who was that, did that movie. That was me and Richard.

Zack Beins

Oh, oh, all right. And Maggie. Well we crushed your head outside of Curly's store in Albuquerque.

Lloyd Kaufman

Ah, that's it.

Zack Beins

I mean that was a long time ago.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, no wonder I can't remember my head was crushed. All right, don't worry though,

Zack Beins

we're gonna go back further than 2007.

Unknown

I'm glad that it's faded again.

Zack Beins

Yes.

Unknown

Yeah, the head's back to full format. Yeah,

Zack Beins

yeah. It's like a little drama dance here. Yeah. I miss drama dance in Park City.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh, well, it sure is nicer where we do it now.

Zack Beins

It's so much more fun. - Oh yeah, it's not 15 degrees.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, it's great, and you've got a huge crowd, and you've got the driving projection that's beautiful, So the kids get to see their movies on this huge stage.

Zack Beins

Instead of in Rumbunnies? Yeah, exactly. In like a ski bar? Yeah, right,

Lloyd Kaufman

right, right. So trying to turn the volume up on the TV louder than the drunk guy ordering his brews. Exactly.

Zack Beins

Although the brewfies was really good.

Lloyd Kaufman

Brewfies had pretty decent, and it was free.

Zack Beins

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

It was free in brewfies too.

Zack Beins

But it was cool, like I had to pick Karen Black up for one of the panels.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh that, I remember that, right.

Zack Beins

And then I think I don't remember if it's you or Gabe, but you're like Zach You need to clean your fucking car up cuz you gotta get Karen black from the air.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, it was kind of a wreck of a car I remember

Zack Beins

Well, so because we filmed cannibal girl in a bucket of blood flipped over on one of the seats

Lloyd Kaufman

But she Karen was so nice she wasn't she I mean she's she didn't care about that kind of stuff whereas Lynn Lowry was kind of Oh, like Karen Black, you know, very open-minded. And Karen was a really beautiful person. I was very- That movie you guys made together,

Zack Beins

the little silly short on some of the troma dance, the vampires like lost monsters.

Lloyd Kaufman

She had this idea, I had nothing to do with it. She, Karen Black, just out of the blue wanted to do that, exactly the way we shot it. And to this moment, I forgot about it.

Zack Beins

Thank you for remembering. So what I've been doing is I've been going through all my old VHS tapes and every single trauma DVD and uploading every special feature to archive it so people can see it. Right now I have a disc of every single Trauma Team video introduction that you and Michael have done.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh,

Zack Beins

great. And that's not-- - How cool is that, Maggie? There's no archive of that anywhere. Maybe on Trauma Now, I might send John-

Lloyd Kaufman

No, I don't think there is.

Zack Beins

I might send John those things. Yeah,

Lloyd Kaufman

make sure I'm in on that when you do that so that I know it's there.

Zack Beins

It's just even if some of the quote advertisements aren't valid anymore, it's just- Oh, so what, it's great, yeah. It's nice to see Brick Bronski, rest in peace. Yeah,

Zack Beins

yeah. To see him promoting this stuff like back then, or Jane Jensen doing these things is really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're good whenever you're ready. cool.

Zack Beins

All righty, well I'm gonna do this all official. Good morning Tromaville and welcome to a very special episode of Talkin' Troma with your host me, Zach Bynes. And this is the episode I'm pretty sure everybody has been waiting for. I know I've been getting messaged about it and I have a very special guest right across the table from me.

Zack Beins

I had to do this live. I couldn't do it over Zoom because it wouldn't be appropriate. Mr. well the creator of the Toxic Avenger president of Troma Entertainment and my mentor and hero Lloyd Kaufman.

Lloyd Kaufman

Zach Beans, Zach Beans come over give me a hug. You're the son I always wanted but never had. You're so soft. Oh man talk about Elijah Wood. I got some wood. Got my All right, Peter Dinklage.

Zack Beins

Get back to your side of the table. (laughing) So, one of the things I've been trying to do with this show is show that trauma actually means a lot more than just the toxic Avenger class in Newcomb High. You've been a shining beacon in the storm of the big Hollywood system for the indie filmmakers

Zack Beins

for almost 50 years now, and you've helped myself my friend Richard Taylor out, and you've helped countless other indie filmmakers out, just getting our voices out there and getting other filmmakers' voices out there, and you see merit in what other indie filmmakers are doing,

Zack Beins

and I do wanna thank you right off the top for doing that.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, thank you very much, Zach, and thank you and Richard for driving out from Denver to Buffalo to sleep on the floor and learn how to defecate in a paper bag. On poultry guys, Night of the Chicken Dead. And Gabe Friedman and I immediately

Lloyd Kaufman

fell in love with you guys.

Zack Beins

I don't know if I've ever told you this story, how I got introduced to Troman. I know I've mentioned it on my first episode, but if you've heard this before, fuck everybody, it's my show. So, one of my buddies knew I was a huge Trey Parker and Matt Stone fan,

Zack Beins

and I loved Basketball in the South Park, but I hadn't really seen too much more, and he said, "Hey, do you want a copy of this movie "Cannibal the Musical? "I'll bootleg it for you." And I was like, "Oh, that sounds so cool." He's like,

Zack Beins

"But I think I'll put the trailers on "that are before that. "They're by this weird company called Troma, "and I think you might like their movies." And I was like, "All right, I'll check it out." And little did I know that me telling him to include the trailers for Cannibal the Musical

Zack Beins

would change my life more than I could ever imagine.

Lloyd Kaufman

Wow, well, what a great honor to hear that. Let me tell you, Michael Erz would be very proud if he was sitting right here.

Zack Beins

Yeah, he'll just slide the cease and desist right over the table for my show.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, not at all. He loves you guys. He just doesn't appear in public,

Zack Beins

but he's very appreciative. I would like to talk to Michael one day. Yeah, oh. Just even on a personal level, just to say thank you. I've never met him. I would love to.

Lloyd Kaufman

I we just have to explain to him and He's a good guy. Yeah, very good guy. He just doesn't Once we got successful, he didn't want to do any more Publicity he didn't like that kind of stuff. That's kind of though. Michael is infinitely more entertaining much faster on the draw than I am and

Lloyd Kaufman

Much wiser and knows when to shut up and he doesn't want to be out there

Zack Beins

one one day Well, we'll get we'll get him on the show at some point. No, I think because of you for you

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, I think at some point you will do it I would love that just but I tell you if the New York Times comes in to do a piece on show He won't be part of it. Well, and I you know, he won't Know it because we've had other comparable Media write-ups and Michael would be disappearing

Zack Beins

I'm glad you brought up New York Times. I know they wrote a good review for your newest film hashtag Shakespeare shitstorm but the one thing I'm combating on my show is I like to call it the trauma review or where you just get the the sideways you know backhanded compliments and I don't appreciate that as a fan of trauma films and Of your movies. There is a way to talk about Your films or the films in the trauma library without being like it's a bad movie, but like yeah, they're not bad movies

Zack Beins

They're all very good films and and you see value

Lloyd Kaufman

I went to your university. I could have been a hedge fund guy easy. No problem I probably could have been governor of New York State easy. They're all stupid. So but because I am stupid I went into making movies, you know, it's not I don't do it to make money I do it for one reason to make the movies to not have to answer anybody and you know

Lloyd Kaufman

This is a result I'm here in a hotel room with Zach beans and had a few drinks and that beans is starting to look pretty Pretty good to me.

Zack Beins

I think 'cause the AC is off and my shirt is slowly getting removed.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, you got those eyes.

Zack Beins

Well, so you brought up Yale and I know that's where you first got into movies really 'cause of your college roommate.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, you're right, Robert Edelstein.

Zack Beins

And can you tell me about some of the films that he was exposing himself for you,

Lloyd Kaufman

or exposing to you, I'm sorry. No, he was my roommate, so I imagine there was a fair amount of exposition in that department. But no, Robert was head of the Film Society, and the group of them were auteurs. They believed in the auteur theory of movie making, that the filmmaker is the author of the movie,

Lloyd Kaufman

that the movie should reflect the brain and soul and heart of the filmmaker, and should reflect a consistency of style and themes. And since I was his roommate, we're in a tiny bedroom and our feet are, my head, our beds were head to toe. So at night,

Lloyd Kaufman

inhaling his Godard smelly feet, eventually I would start drifting into the auditorium to see the movies. the film society was showing. And I kept getting blown away. Chaplin, Keaton, John Ford, Howard Oaks,

Lloyd Kaufman

Sam Fuller. I never knew Charlie Chaplin was a director and a writer and a songwriter, a musician and all that, and a roller skater. I didn't even know what a director was. I was never conscious of the director as a major part of the movie until I went to the Yale Film Society screenings.

Lloyd Kaufman

screenings.

Zack Beins

And when was it like in Yale that you decided you wanted to dabble in making movies? I know you made Rappaccini and The Girl Who Returned right around that time.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well my roommate Robert Edelstein, head of the Film Society, he directed Rappaccini and I produced it with him. And he bought up Bolex, which a social disease. It's a kind of a Swiss 16mm camera. It's a beautiful machine. But he had one.

Lloyd Kaufman

And Rappaccini was based on Hawthorne's daughter. And both Robert and I were Hawthorne freaks. And so I tagged along and helped him produce it. And we showed it at a few colleges. it's 16 millimeter. I had very, it was filmed in my mother's house in New York and we had a fair amount of adventures on it but it's 16 millimeter black and

Lloyd Kaufman

white, no sync sound because Bolex won't, doesn't have the sync pulse so So narration and sound effects and music basically. And then Girl of Return was a bit more entertaining.

Zack Beins

I'm gonna interrupt you real quick. I do wanna ask, so there's a still of Rappaccini in your book, All I Need to Know About Filmmaking I Learned from the Toxic Avenger. But that's all I've ever seen of it. Is there a way to see Rappaccini

Zack Beins

or do those elements still exist or is that something that could get uploaded to Truman now?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, Robert Edelstein would be the guy to add. It's his film.

Zack Beins

So just for the completists out there, I think it'd be really interesting to see.

Lloyd Kaufman

It's also important because Perry King, a fairly serious movie star, oh, sorry. Perry King, that was his first movie. He did something of Joel Delaney with Shirley MacLaine. Robert Mulligan movie. He's a great guy but anyway he he signed up to do

Lloyd Kaufman

Rappaccini and and Roger Kirby's girlfriend at the time Bep Ornsberg played the daughter and we filmed it in my mother's brownstone in New York which had a garden we could dress as we rented a lot of plants so it could look like a And it's like Girl Who Returned is, you know, I don't want to speak for Rappaccini, but Girl Who Returned is totally unwatchable. And yet we got to play it at maybe a dozen, 15 colleges,

Lloyd Kaufman

charge a dollar a ticket and run for our lives.

Zack Beins

Do you remember what it was like seeing like Girl Who Returned in front of a crowd of people? Like the first time like any of your films showed in front of a group of people? How did that feel?

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, that's a very good question. I guess, a big deal. You know, I can't really remember. Remember, I graduated in 1968, and '67, I think, is when they showed "Girl Who Returned,"

Lloyd Kaufman

or maybe they showed "Rappaccini" '67 and "Girl Who Returned" '68. It was a huge thing for me. But more important, Girl Return taught me two things. One, once people buy tickets, no matter how bad the movie is, they won't ask for the money back.

Lloyd Kaufman

And two, two movies were being shown that night at the same time. One was Moonrise by Borzeghi, I think. And the other one-- and it was just a poster. Basically, Borzeghi was the big deal there. And then they had The Girl Who Returned,

Lloyd Kaufman

which featured an attractive young non-male on their back, kind of with a sweaty t-shirt and her love pillows a bit enlarged. And it looked sexy, it had nothing to do with sex. But it was a better poster than the one for Bosegi. So we had a pretty big house, and even though the movie is horrible,

Lloyd Kaufman

Nobody asked for, so make a poster that's intriguing in some way, and you know, buy two okay. And even if you make a movie that stinks, people are not likely to ask for their money back.

Zack Beins

Well and then, so like right around that time also, you worked in the Peace Corps in Chad. Not the Peace Corps, no. No, I'm sorry.

Lloyd Kaufman

Nothing about me had anything to do with peace. You're thinking of the Pizza Corps. Very active in the pizza core Very cheesy Now I was more in the not the Peace Corps in the violence work or Against peace, no very bad. That's bad joke. So sorry. I did not say that but Probably be taken out of context

Lloyd Kaufman

Here's what Lloyd Corbin said right after President Biden said He wants to be in the war corps. Actually, it's kind of a clever name. War corps,

Zack Beins

the war corps. Yeah. There's a tagline for another. Yeah. That was a good book. Good book. Special needs the war.

Lloyd Kaufman

Anyway, where were we? We were talking about something. Talk about, uh, you're, you're doing the Chad. Yeah. Chad was a great, great life experience.

Zack Beins

And you said it was a pretty big point in your book anyways. You shot some home video and stuff in Chad as well as- Not video. Our Super 8. 16 millimeter. Oh, it was 16. Do you still have any of that footage you shot in Chad?

Lloyd Kaufman

Somebody has it. And a lot of it was used in a thesis, whatever you want to call it, at Yale, African art, where I intercut dancing in the bush of Chad with dancing in, in those days I think it was called black nightclubs, and then intercutting the style of the coolness

Lloyd Kaufman

but yet the hotness of both the African dance and the, you know, I'm thousands of miles away and the people dancing around with sticks and the cool nightclub dancing. You could see the roots.

Zack Beins

Do you think Yale still has that film like in their archives?

Lloyd Kaufman

I don't, I lent, I don't know, I don't know. I honestly, I just don't. It's one of those things where I just, I always assumed I had it and then one day I tried to find it and you know.

Zack Beins

Yeah, just over the years it gets.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, yeah, you know, you just, Suddenly you wake up one way, where, by the way, where is that man? (laughs)

Zack Beins

And so I know like after that you went to go work on some other films. I know you worked for the Canon Group. Was this before it was-

Lloyd Kaufman

By the way, I was not in the Peace Corps. I was a, what do you call it? A guinea pig for the Peace Corps. I was there to test the area in Chad. I also was a teacher in the Chad bureaucracy in the bush. We lived without electricity or anything, no phones and nothing.

Lloyd Kaufman

But there was plenty of food, so people were pretty healthy and happy. It's a very interesting, very sophisticated culture in its way, totally different from what I grew up, which was I grew up on an island of cement called Manhattan.

Lloyd Kaufman

where everything is full of hostility and all that stuff and where we were it was people were having a good time and it was complicated too.

Dysmorphia

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

It was very, but it didn't fuck up the atmosphere and everybody, and now Chad, they don't have enough to eat you know because of the so-called, what do you call it? Gentrification. The-

Lloyd Kaufman

I don't know, whatever it is. Yeah. that the cocoa growers in the Ivory Coast have never tasted chocolate because they can't afford it. And the Rwanda tomato and pepper growers get, they live on two dollars a day because all their vegetables have to be sold to a combine, to an oligopoly of white exporters

Dysmorphia

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

Market way up to the Western world, which is the world responsible for one third of Pakistan being underwater. Right. They didn't do it. We did.

Zack Beins

You've been warning us about these corporate elites doing this, going to do this to us for decades, but nobody's listened.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, not just the corporate elites, the, the bureaucratic elite, the so-called the elected representatives and the labor elite.

Zack Beins

But you've been warning us for- My whole career,

Lloyd Kaufman

50 years at least.

Zack Beins

And nobody took their safe space here, so nobody listened.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, no, look at the Toxic Avenger Part Four, Citizen Toxie, the whole thing is, I mean not the whole thing, but abortion is a big part of that, a movie made in 2000, year 2000,

Lloyd Kaufman

right?

Zack Beins

I'm gonna kick you off, we will get to Citizen Toxie. But we're still back in the early days in Manhattan. Never gonna get to Citizen Toxie.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, we will. Maybe we should break this up a little bit. Yeah, I'm totally down. Maybe we do up to a certain point and then we-

Zack Beins

You wanna go through the '70s? Well, let's just see where we go. Through the sexy comedies?

Lloyd Kaufman

Let's see what Maggie says, thank you. Pure sexy comedy.

Zack Beins

I wanna know a little bit more about the time when you worked in Canon Films. Was that Golan Anglobus at that time?

Lloyd Kaufman

No, no, it was pre-Golan Anglobus. It was the day of Dewey and Friedland. And nice guys, it was basically my first job. And I was just a shit boy. But that's where I met John G. Avilson, lucky me.

Zack Beins

And you worked on, was Joe before Rocky?

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes. John had made a movie called Guess What I Learned at School Today, which had a couple of other names. And Cannon distributed it. And John also made another movie, Sweet Dreams, and I think Cannon may also have distributed that. John was working in the editing room,

Lloyd Kaufman

and I was rewinding stuff so we sort of knew each other. And then they produced Joe. And John took Joe, which was originally called The Gap, which was a mediocre generation gap kind of softcore sausage, nothing, just another sausage. And Avilson hired Norman Wexler to totally rewrite the movie

Lloyd Kaufman

Became Joe and it got an Academy Award nomination Peter Boyle's first movie Susan Sarandon's first movie hundred thousand dollars and a nomination for best screenplay Made in New York unknown director unknown actors never have that today impossible today, but while they were shooting Joe they needed a production assistant and So I was sent from the office where I was filing things and rewinding stuff in the editing room

Lloyd Kaufman

I was sent to the set toward the beginning of the shoot and I remember the first day of When I was not when I the first day on the set and I saw that the shot that Avilson set up Looking through a furnace Into the furnace, but it was a beautiful shot. I don't remember the exact thing. Yeah I sort of said,

Lloyd Kaufman

"Hey, this is a bit, "I think I'd try to stay with this guy. "He looks good." And sure enough, and then Cry Uncle after that, which we still distribute Cry Uncle on.

Zack Beins

And it's a really good movie.

Lloyd Kaufman

Isn't it great? It's hilarious. It's really funny. And again, another teardown by John G. Avilson. This time he hired David O'Dell to take kind of an adequate, you know, money-making,

Lloyd Kaufman

softcore, sort of detective, James Bond kind of thing. And Avilson hired Alan Garfield, you know, beer belly guy and this tall ostrich-like actor from Tom Ions' Dirtiest Show in Town. And they look like Bert and Harry Peele's,

Lloyd Kaufman

which were, you know, one was tall and one was short. And they sold beer on, cartoon beer. They were cartoon characters who sold beer, which I guess was cartoon, I don't know. Anyway,

Lloyd Kaufman

very good stuff. Very, very good stuff. And so- Boy, am I boring. No, no. This is awful. It's not though.

Zack Beins

Like, the people wanna know about your history, making movies. Like, it's not really well documented. Like, you may think it's boring, but this is important that people know where you came from because I think you get, a lot of people are like, oh, it's Lloyd Kaufman.

Zack Beins

He does the boobs and the blood and the toxic avenger. And while that may be true, you also have a proper film upbringing. And I don't think people take you, I take you seriously as a filmmaker, but when I read some of these backhanded reviews, I don't know if they understand that you have a proper film upbringing

Zack Beins

and you know your shit. And I wanna dispel that myth that's out there. So I really appreciate you sharing some of this stuff with me. And I was-

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I'll thank, by the same token, Thank you for memorializing trauma and keeping this project going. My archives, Stan Lee set up my archives in Oklahoma at the American Heritage Institute where his archives are. But what you're doing is really interesting because you've got generations of people, some of whom are already dead. just died recently. Who died recently?

Lloyd Kaufman

Brick Brownski. Yeah, Brick died and David Mattis. Who knows what's gonna happen to him.

Zack Beins

I need to get him on soon.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, you should, you should. He's such a great guy.

Zack Beins

Was it around this time though, working with John G. Avilson, did he push you into making your own damn movie with Battle of Love's Return?

Lloyd Kaufman

No, I made that I think before Joe. I remember forcing John Avilson to watch the Battle of Love's Return on a 16 millimeter projector in his apartment on West 86th Street in New York. And he had to sit through the whole thing. We had to change reels and his wife Melissa, so nice, so polite, poor guy.

Zack Beins

Well, and if you look kind of at your filmography, there's a little gap, and I know in there for directing wise, you directed some adult films at that time.

Lloyd Kaufman

I've done nothing adult. No, I guess I'm adolescent, which still has boners and stuff like that. And, and, and, uh, I don't know, penetration juvenile,

Zack Beins

some, uh, but you did do some, uh, pornographic films and I would like to talk to you.

Lloyd Kaufman

Why do you say what is pornographic?

Zack Beins

Was it? So I've seen, uh, the divine obsession.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, that's a beautiful, What are you talking about? And honestly- When you say pornographic, what does that mean? I think what I mean is- You mean a movie that has some hardcore sex. Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

But it's a beautiful 35 millimeter film with a score by somebody who went on to do good music and my roommate at Yale wrote the script and it's a film, it just happens to have- Actual sex in there. double penetration, what are you gonna do?

Zack Beins

That's life, right? I've seen that film and it has the trademark- You filthy pig, how dare you?

Lloyd Kaufman

And you are interviewing me in the podcast? This is an outrage.

Zack Beins

I had to put the nickel in the slot.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, 25 cents,

Zack Beins

please. Well, I had plenty of paper towels around. Oh, please,

Lloyd Kaufman

Maggie, don't. It's very low class, yeah. I'm sorry.

Zack Beins

But I do wanna know, like, did, like Wes Craven and John Carpenter, they cut their teeth also making pornographic movies before they jumped into their more, you know, career where it's like The Last House on the Left or Halloween.

Zack Beins

And the same with you, there's a whole generation of filmmakers who cut their teeth making these movies. Did you learn any lessons from making these films that you brought on to later Troma movies?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, you're talking about the movies that were directed by Louis Hsu. Yes, by Louis Hsu. I wrote a book, Produce Your Own Damn Movie, a very good book,

Lloyd Kaufman

in which I interviewed Louis Hsu, and he talks a lot about how, because he wrote and was the DP and kind of did his own lighting definitely did his own camera work that the these movies that you refer to as

Zack Beins

pornographic I think I think the the studio system refers I'm just I'm just

Lloyd Kaufman

appropriating their terms oh oh well that's still not very woke to appropriate but at any rate these are hard-hitting questions so anyway Louis Seu got his film school it was like film school except that the movies during that period they came out around the time of Gerard Damiano with Devil and Miss Jones and they were reviewed on network television. I mean there was a real period where Porno Chic it was called. Porno Chic except

Lloyd Kaufman

didn't have the dissonance or whatever you call it. Not dissonance when you make the SS... it begins with S. Sorry. S-A-T word.

Zack Beins

But what other kind of lessons did you learn from there that you brought on? I know you talk about when you're shooting sex scenes in films now you try to do those first. Did you have that same mantra back then?

Lloyd Kaufman

I mean did Lewis... Or did Lewis... I apologize. You guys look very similar. I get very emotional whenever you talk about Louis Sue. What did I learn? I learned, well I went to an all boys high school and then Yale, I was all boys,

Lloyd Kaufman

so I got to learn a lot about sex, let me tell ya. I couldn't fathom stuff that we filmed. Even though I went to Africa, I don't recall anything like what's in those movies.

Zack Beins

And I have it from a good source that elements of those films or the negatives still exist. Is there any way that those are going to get some sort of proper Blu-ray release? I know Vinegar Syndrome does put out those type of films, and they restore the negatives. And I think for myself personally in the collector, it's really interesting to see you or John Carpenter or Wes

Zack Beins

Craven's work in that field just as a whole body of work to see where he came from or where Louis Sue came from I'm sorry.

Lloyd Kaufman

A whole naked body of work. You just want to see some naked people? No. I just you know you are such a pervert that's I know it's so sneaky of you to even you know try to get me to fall for that one. No way buddy. This is just part of film history. No, it is a burden.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh yeah, you just wanna, you know. (laughing) You're thinking, I've been married too, buddy, I know. (laughing)

Dysmorphia

You gotta take it where you can. Worship the bishop,

Lloyd Kaufman

yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

Zack Beins

I do wanna say, though, I do think the interest is out there, you know, to see these films, and I would like to see them get restored.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, but I don't have control. Gotcha. There are other individuals involved. Okay. Like three to one. (laughing)

Zack Beins

Well, if talk and trauma counts, then you got a.025 you can add to that one.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, no, not a chance. (laughing) No, I'm afraid. This is gonna be like Forgotten Silver. People are gonna have to hunt through the jungle. and did you see,

Lloyd Kaufman

well you know Forgotten Silver, no? Well we talked about it.

Unknown

I think we did once before.

Lloyd Kaufman

It's Kevin, what's his, you know, Peter Jackson's documentary, a fake documentary. It's wonderful about sort of a Cecil B. DeMille negative that's buried deep somewhere in the jungle and it's all that's left of this.

Unknown

Yeah, that's right, Peter produced that one, yeah. No, that's interesting that you would compare the two on there because it's like, it is still, as he's alluding to, it is part of film history because I think it's helpful for young filmmakers to also realize, well, hey, we all start from someplace.

Unknown

And then it kind of helps dispel the myth of just like, well, I got offered a Hollywood gig right away. Like, it's like everybody cuts their teeth on "Strange Bedfellows" once or twice in their career before they go to the thing they're meant to do.

Lloyd Kaufman

That's almost a line from The Tempest. (laughing) Hashtag Shakespeare shitstorm too. No joke.

Zack Beins

Well, and one thing I do wanna say about those films is they definitely carry your signature sense of humor in there, which you've later brought over to the sexy comedies like Squeeze Play, Stuck on You, Waitress, and The First Turn On.

Zack Beins

I do wanna talk about those sexy comedies. What made you wanna go in the comedy route instead of doing a drama film? Or could you ever picture yourself making a full-on drama?

Lloyd Kaufman

No. (laughing) Never, never. I mean, I would love to get a script that is really great, that is serious, that'd be wonderful. But I certainly can't create one. And I've always loved comedy,

Lloyd Kaufman

and luckily Michael Hirs seems to be okay with it. And I don't like the idea of losing money on every movie, but we do enjoy the films we end up with.

Zack Beins

I do like, you can see some of your influences quite a bit in those sexy comedies, and it may be one of my favorite eras in your career. Like, you see like the Keystone Cops, or like the Marx Brothers and Chaplin Elements. Can you talk a little bit more about just some of the comedy inspirations

Zack Beins

pulled while making those films?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well certainly Keaton in Toxic Avenger Part Deux, he's got these, total Keaton, totally Keaton. It's random too, why? Supposedly because she's blind, but that's absurd. But I did it because of the Keaton film that had things hanging from the,

Lloyd Kaufman

you know a little bit Rube Goldberg-ish.

Dysmorphia

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

basically Keaton. And there was another Keaton one where a taxi wants to commit suicide and he walks into a tunnel. And that's right away from Keaton.

Zack Beins

And there's the two motorcycles. Yeah, yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

Keaton's was bicycles.

Zack Beins

Well and I rewatched Waitress again not too long ago and that movie reminded me a lot of #ShakespeareShitstorm, just the pandemonium of the crowd behind the actors. There's constant action in every frame of those movies. Can you talk about in Waitress, how it was directing that many people on screen at the same time because everybody has something just unique and silly they're doing. And that's a theme that kind of goes across your whole body of work.

Lloyd Kaufman

That's interesting. No, it's a good question. But I very much love the slapstick stuff and the idea that we have the action going on in the foreground between the two. And then in the background people are strangling each other and all sorts of goofy stuff, elephants going fast. I just find that amusing.

Lloyd Kaufman

So I spent a lot of time on this shtick, as they call it. And Stuck on You was heavily inspired by Tom Lehrer and, and, and, crap. And Stan Freeberg? Yes. Sorry, sorry, Stan Freeberg. And, and if you haven't,

Lloyd Kaufman

if you haven't heard their songs, Stan Freeberg made a, he did a record called Stan Freeberg, F-R-E-E-B-E-R-G, Discovers America, wonderful. And Tom Lehrer also, satirical songs

Lloyd Kaufman

and wonderful wordplay, that kind of stuff. Check out Tom Lehrer and I think we're gonna use his hunting song.

Zack Beins

Oh.

Lloyd Kaufman

Tom Lerner's hunting song in Curse of the Weirdeer by Ben Johnson.

Zack Beins

That, I saw the trailer, or you know, some teasers that they've done for that in stills, and I love the hunting song. We shoulda got our permit. (laughing)

Lloyd Kaufman

That's good for you, 'cause that's way before your time.

Zack Beins

I grew up listening to like the Dr. Demento Show and reading Mad Magazine. And I'm a huge Mad Magazine nerd, and I know that you're a New York staple, and so was Mad Magazine back before they moved to LA and got bought by the comic book conglomerates. But can you talk about, I know you've met some

Zack Beins

of the people at Mad Magazine, and can you talk just in your life, what are some of your favorite stuff from that Mad Magazine?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I have not really met too many people from Mad. My favorite was Don, he was always my favorite and my father, my brother, we all loved his characters.

Zack Beins

Don Martin.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, that's it, Don Martin, yeah, yeah. Anyway, we all loved Don Martin and I finally years later, well after he had split mad,

Lloyd Kaufman

I got introduced to him and I was like a little fan boy That's what you're not It was like

Zack Beins

Well, he would have to he always had the crazy sound effects behind His characters And I know like you had Copies of Mad Magazine is like kind of sight gags and like the toxic Avenger 2 and other and other movies But how did it feel? When thank you when Mad Magazine did a parody of the toxic Avenger

Lloyd Kaufman

Look the the Trump talk. Yeah Pretender. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty amazing You know after 34 years Toxie becomes part of the lexicon. I mean Comparing him to Trump.

Zack Beins

Yeah,

Lloyd Kaufman

well Trump to him is Hey, I'll take it. It was great.

Zack Beins

This is nicely done and kind of in that comic book vein You're you were also really good friends with Stan Lee.

Lloyd Kaufman

I I searched out Stan Lee whilst I was at Yale, toward the end of the road. And because I had discovered the comic books, next door were a big pile of them, next door to my Yale room. So I saw these beautiful comic books with clever, the pencil guy, or whoever,

Lloyd Kaufman

ink, ink, inker, I'd never heard of these terms. but they had funny alliteration names. I can't remember, but at any rate, Steve Ditko, Swingin' Steve Ditko, that kind of name.

Lloyd Kaufman

Plus, the art was so beautiful. So I searched out Stan and tried to get a job, and we kind of stayed in touch. He's in a bunch of our movies. Hashtag Shakespeare's Shitstorm is dedicated to Stan Lee, along with John G. Avilson and my stepmother Sigrund.

Zack Beins

And I know you guys wrote a film together, at least one. I don't know if you've wrote more than one. It never got produced. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, we didn't really-

Zack Beins

Well, it was like a screenplay, but it was like Night of the Witch, right?

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, but nothing ever happened.

Zack Beins

But I still think that's interesting to think about, that you and Stan Lee wrote something together.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, we didn't really write it together. It was just, I just had to-

Zack Beins

Did he pitch you an idea, or?

Lloyd Kaufman

It was kind of an idea, but it was, we had already talked about it, and he didn't really have much to do with it, to be honest. I tried to get him involved, but I never could, really. And at the end,

Lloyd Kaufman

it was made very clear to me that they didn't want anything to do with it. Not Stan, but the partner.

Zack Beins

Question for the Viewers: I just think it's kind of fun that you had that friendship with Stan and later down the road with James Gunn. Jim Levine Yeah,

Lloyd Kaufman

he was a big fan. He was a great fan. thing was and obviously Toxie is heavily influenced by Spider-Man and the whole Troma universe is Stan Lee and Marvel.

Zack Beins

And I kind of moving on a little bit from that but on the superhero vein into the Toxic Avenger a bit. I don't know too much else to say about Toxie that hasn't been really even said before but I do want to know with all of your films, not just the Toxic Avenger, you tackle major themes that are going on in the world and that's definitely a conscious choice when you could make a movie that has nothing to say.

Zack Beins

Why has that always been kind of important in your work?

Lloyd Kaufman

Louis Bieler Well, just my education and I had a left-wing grandmother who was full of piss and literally when if she said the word Nixon or somebody said the word Nixon she would literally spit on the ground didn't matter where we were it could be on a you know heirloom rug she'd and she read I have stone weekly and introduced me to a lot of interesting thoughts and themes and somehow I got the feeling that I should, if I'm going to be an artist,

Lloyd Kaufman

be sort of a socialist artist. I'm not a socialist really, I just want to show the truth. The truth 24 times a second. And thanks to Zack Beans and Richard Taylor, I was enabled to do that once again on Foultry The Night of the Chicken.

Zack Beins

Well, it's definitely something that brought me to your art because I've seen hundreds of horror movies, but none of them has stuck with me because in Toxic Avenger, Classical Nukem High, you're talking about the problems with pollution and radiation. Or you're talking about the issues of corporate greed,

Zack Beins

trampling just the small guy out there. And that's something I've always appreciated about your films. One of, I guess a couple films, Toxic Avenger 2 and 3 is about a lot of, you know, the corporate greed going on, but I know that was the first one single film.

Zack Beins

Can you talk about what Toxic Avenger 2 and 3 looked like before it was cut into two movies?

Lloyd Kaufman

I just remember it was sort of Heaven's Gate kind of thing, where it was like eight hours. And suddenly, and the other thing is that the video we were required to deliver movies to because the video boom was going on. So while we were shooting it looked like we could have an actual ending for part two and then have two movies because I had already shot the two movies basically. So we shot

Lloyd Kaufman

a kind of a fake, not a fake ending, but a pseudo ending for part two.

Zack Beins

When I talked to Rick Collins, he said that he directed that shot of him and Lisa Gay walking down the road like hitchhiking. And he was telling me how he snuck that into the the dailies and you're like who shot this? Oh,

Lloyd Kaufman

I'm sure that was his idea. It's very cute. Lisa Gay too, wonderful people. He, both he, he's still in some of our movies. He's in, Rick is in Return to Nukumai

Lloyd Kaufman

and Return to Return to Nukumai.

Zack Beins

And Lisa Gay's in #ShakespeareShakespeareStory. It's fun seeing her as Professor Holt pop up again.

Lloyd Kaufman

And my daughter was Professor Holt Jr. In- With the same hair. And Subhumanoid Meltdown Classical Nikolai Part 2.

Zack Beins

Which daughter was that? Lily Hayes. Awesome. The story-wise of Part 2 and 3, when it was one movie, was it pretty similar story structure to how it is now? Or did you guys completely rearrange in the edit to make it two movies?

Lloyd Kaufman

I don't, I'm trying to remember who was the editor. I can't, who was the editor? I don't remember. I'm sure we were rearranging stuff. It must have been. I know for Citizen Toxie, I think for most of our movies,

Lloyd Kaufman

we shoot material well after principle photography and very often on the roof of the Tromer building in Hell's Kitchen or in Long Island City and little cutaways that we need or something to make the scene comprehensible, little things like that. There's a lot of that going on when I'm making a movie.

Zack Beins

I stumbled across on Facebook effects artists I the name slipping me right now, but he posted a picture of like like a Burnt like little baby that he's like we blew this up in toxic Avenger part 2 and I don't remember that in the movie So obviously it got cut but do you remember anything about like a baby getting blown up in toxic Avenger like two or three?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, no My daughter Charlotte in three I think it is got blown up into a tree into the tree Yeah, she was a she was okay. Like yeah, Toxie pulls her out of the tree. She had on sunglasses like Sarah with a little cane. Yeah Which and that's the only baby I remember. Yeah, I think that's what they must be referred referring to

Zack Beins

But yeah, it was just bizarre because he had like a prop of like a bird. Oh, I don't remember that

Lloyd Kaufman

Honestly, maybe it didn't look real enough or maybe it looked too real

Zack Beins

Yeah, no, I was just curious about that. I was like that because I mean obviously, you know, she survived she's farting all over Sarah

Lloyd Kaufman

You know times have changed, you know, maybe We thought it was too much, but I don't think so. I I just have no recollection. I usually remember stuff like that

Zack Beins

What one thing that is kind of you know, sadly like present in your entire Body of work is is your struggle against free speech with the MPAA and then like even brought when you were brought on the Morton Downey jr. Show or even the present day with Cancel culture and I know you tackle cancel culture and hashtag Shakespeare shit storm But can you talk about how it's been different, you know fighting like the MPAA as opposed to like, you know People on Twitter are just different talk shows trying to shut down what you have to say

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, my grandmother had a big framed political cartoon of Senator McCarthy ripping up the Bill of Rights, you know, kind of political style cartoon. But it was a big, big frame picture. And same thing, Blacklist, then MPAA, Double Standard,

Lloyd Kaufman

where it's okay for Bruce Willis to have blood all over the place, but not okay for Troma's War, which is a goofy, cartoony movie that came out after Bruce Willis' serious, violent death wish. No, not death wish.

Dysmorphia

Die Hard.

Lloyd Kaufman

Die Hard, sorry. Die Hard. You know, just it's autocratic. disgusting. And then it just keeps going. Now you have the people who are judging what is woke and what isn't, and the gatekeepers at the various

Lloyd Kaufman

giant media company have put everything through a strainer.

Zack Beins

Do you find it harder now to get your message out than back in like the 70s or 80s or was it harder back then

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I think now we have free speech as long as we don't say anything back Then we could sort of say anything. We least we didn't get I don't remember. I mean we were economically blacklisted Yeah, it's always a blacklist. They always figure out something something something something Luckily, I've been born white. So I have at least that go. I think I'm well

Zack Beins

Well, you're as you said in Hashtag Shakespeare's his storm. It's like you consider Jewish white sometimes

Lloyd Kaufman

so but I mean imagine how difficult it's been and imagine if you're not white what You can't imagine yeah But you asked that question just kind of how it how you've noticed like,

Zack Beins

you know, just either like the big elites Keeping you quiet as opposed to cancel culture today just how it's different or if it's the same same beast But just a different face

Lloyd Kaufman

I think it's just a different group of people who want to tell us how to run our lives and and ever and they're perfectly happy with double What do you call double value where yeah, you know, you're okay. You can do that, but you can't you know,

Lloyd Kaufman

right I mean it's It's not not healthy.

Zack Beins

I In talking about all this If I brought up talk shows, I know you were on the Morton Downey jr. Show and there was a big controversy I saw the clip where you and Michael hers are getting

Lloyd Kaufman

Accosted no. No, that's not Michael hers. I'm not Michael hers Michael hers would by that time Michael He was out of it. He refused to go on anything. No, definitely not. That was my assistant Arthur, his name was Arthur. And we were trying to,

Lloyd Kaufman

we were hoping to have a, his mother could see him on TV. You know, it was a WOR, a universal television station. And it was my wife's first night out after giving birth. So we thought, oh

Lloyd Kaufman

this will be fun. You know, they sent a car for us. And, oh, we're in a limousine. look at us and then you tell the rest of it.

Zack Beins

Well, they show a clip from Troma's war and it seemed like everybody was excited to see you guys and then until he showed the clip and then Morton Downey Jr. got the crowd whipped up into a frenzy where it you know almost looked like that Geraldo clip where they're throwing the chairs on the stage and they're trying to attack you guys. Tell me more about just

Zack Beins

that whole experience like?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, that was a setup that was pre-planned, except we didn't know about it. It was kind of like candid camera or pranks, where they prank, it was like a big prank. Gotcha. And we were in the green room and we did hear the audience screaming and yelling. And my guess is that Downey and the gang whipped him up

Lloyd Kaufman

and because the way they choreographed it, it was clearly fixed.

Zack Beins

I was always wondering, because you saw people who look like Troma fans in the crowd with like Toxic Avengers shirts or whatever.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, at the beginning they were, they loved Troma, but they were told to, I think, "Thank you, thank you so much." I just was given a huge bowl of caviar,

Lloyd Kaufman

it's incredible. Nothing, nothing but the best. Vegan caviar, so no salmon were hurt in this.

Zack Beins

I got to squeeze those turnips really hard.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, that's right. Exactly. But nothing but the best. Anyway, I don't know. What are we talking about?

Zack Beins

Morton Downey Jr.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah. Anyway, it was a setup. So they got their cheap laugh, except that I they thought that he he suddenly he does a thing with a thumbs up. Should we keep him? Oh, yeah. He showed a little bit of Chalmers war raw footage, and they picked a piece of film that

Lloyd Kaufman

Absolutely nothing had a little bit of blood but other than that nothing. Yeah, it was like a nothing five-second clip and then Downey Says shall we keep them or shall we get rid of them? And we're sitting on the stage with the audience down below us and my wife in the middle of the audience just having given birth and and both Arthur and I Looked at each other and Down he puts his he's telling the audience with his thumb down what you know what to answer and they all say

Lloyd Kaufman

And it was a Halloween thing that's how they got me to go on they said it was going to be a trauma I'm a genius. This is gonna be a party at Roma Halloween party and The studio where they filmed in was in New Jersey, and that's where Tromaville, New Jersey comes from so so they got us out there and under false pretenses, but Then my assistant and I

Lloyd Kaufman

Unexpectedly to the TV people we refused to move because the people had they had masks on and fake guns and you know fake weapons and penises on their noses and You know and my wife's in the middle of it And Arthur and I didn't want to go down the stage and to get out you had to walk through this audience So we finally they called in security and beat us up a little bit and my shoulder got separated and my watch flew off and and That that's one of those it's not fun

Zack Beins

That's one of those tales that's in like kind of the Tromaville Like like urban legends like like bigger than true another one that I've always been curious about And there's always just been murmurs in the background is is that it From your books and even just some just like sly, you know off-the-cuff comments on different interviews that there's bad blood Between you and like the filmmakers of street trash

Lloyd Kaufman

well, I you know, I I Don't swear to this but I've been told and I thought so that Whilst I was being dragged out kicking and screaming and that Arthur was being dragged screening, some guy connected with Street Crash,

Lloyd Kaufman

not the professor who owns it, but I can't remember, but he went up to the podium, "I'm not like them, I'm not like them, I'm a real New Jersey person," or something. It was something like that, but I don't recall. Maybe it's on the video.

Lloyd Kaufman

But I believe it, I may be wrong, but I believe it was somebody from Street Trash.

Zack Beins

Yeah, it's just always been out- I think I wrote something in the book. Yeah, but you've only kind of alluded to it. And it's just always been kind of the Troma fanboy, like, I hear Lloyd hates the filmmakers of Street Trash. And nobody really knows the story there.

Zack Beins

So I've asked around, it's like, what do you wanna know from Lloyd that you have never heard, and more than one person was like, I wanna know if he actually hates the filmmakers of Street Trash or hates the movie, or if there was like bad blood that happened there.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, no, not at all, just that whoever that guy was. And he may not have even had anything to do with that movie that rhymes with Reed Trash.

Zack Beins

Yes.

Lloyd Kaufman

But the producer who owns the movie, I've taught his class, a good guy. And by the way, Justin Martel and I imagine other Troma alums are producing the remake of Street Trash with a really good director.

Zack Beins

I think they're shooting that as we're speaking. Are they in pre-production of it? They're in pre-production of it. The Fried Berry director is doing the Street Trash remake.

Lloyd Kaufman

He's great. He's very good, right?

Zack Beins

Yeah, no, it's just one of those full circle trauma things like, oh, that's interesting to know like there was something there and just always curious about that. Yeah,

Lloyd Kaufman

yeah, that is interesting.

Zack Beins

And another thing I was always curious about, so there were-

Lloyd Kaufman

The Kruger grocery store is very good, grocery store, great director, great grocery stores.

Zack Beins

Yeah, sometimes it pops up in your dreams. Exactly. (laughing) Another thing I always kind of wondered about, just kind of jumping around a little bit more, so after Kabuki Man, there was a gap in between Kabuki Man and Tromeo and Juliet, and that's kind of around the time

Zack Beins

Troma Team Video started, and there's not a lot of just information out there on what you and Michael were, why you chose to set up your own distribution label like Troma Team Video, 'cause before you'd go through like, you know, media or Warner Brothers or other companies like that to put the movies out.

Lloyd Kaufman

Sorry, I just had to wet my whistle as we say.

Zack Beins

The altitude here in Colorado,

Lloyd Kaufman

it's all dried out. That's it, yep, yep, yep. I'll never forget Jeffrey Lyons, one of our great critics, curated the film festival in, oh crap,

Lloyd Kaufman

Breckenridge Film Festival. And Jeffrey had Pat and me come out and he showed some Troma movies. And it was great, but oh my god, I didn't realize that you get drunk out here. You gotta take a piss. - Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, I'll never forget that hangover. Yeah, you're right, that's why I guess I'm a little bit-

Lloyd Kaufman

A little parched? Parched, yes, exactly.

Zack Beins

Oh, what the whistle. But anyways, back to- Nature. Yeah, what made you guys wanna start the Troma Team video label as opposed to finding other distributors? Or was that more of a necessity thing

Zack Beins

to keep the doors open?

Lloyd Kaufman

I think we were getting big advances, but then the majors started to rise with Blockbuster pop stores, which then pushed out a lot of Vestron and Media Home Entertainment, who were the big distributors for the independents, but couldn't compete with the James Bond or whatever was coming out through the majors.

Lloyd Kaufman

And then Blockbuster put out a business. They basically put the little guys and gals, put them out of business.

Zack Beins

One of the things I always liked in the Troma Team videos was the Tromaville cafes or the wraparounds which I liked the movies that you guys were doing but one of the things that kept me coming back for more was seeing you and Kabuki Man talking about a film or Michael Hirs and you talking about something or even just a skit with the stars of the next movie and it made everybody feel like they were part of the Troma Team and part of the Troma project, like we're getting this sneak peek and you guys are doing little sketches for us.

Zack Beins

Can you talk about filming like Tromaville Cafe or some of those wraparounds?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I, it's been a while. Yeah. But I think we've always felt that we must bring our fans into the family, that without our fans we're nothing. And even when there was only 35 millimeter,

Lloyd Kaufman

We sent the stars of Squeeze Play down to Norfolk, Virginia. That was the American premiere. It was one weekend. But we sent them down there and put them in Motel 6s or whatever, probably lots of people in a room. Well, no, I think they had their own room.

Lloyd Kaufman

At any rate, it was unusual for Norfolk to have the, and it did great. And it was a huge hit. There was a sneak preview. But then AMC wanted to play it everywhere. That one sneak preview. That's awesome.

Lloyd Kaufman

And then- But the idea was to be interactive with our fans. And we really have done that from the very beginning. Really, no matter what the medium was, it was really thanks to our fans. Well, you.

Zack Beins

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

You for sure.

Zack Beins

I mean, I've even had the opportunity be in some of those DVD intros that really helped me discover more Troma movies or even attached to it, even if I like the special features you guys are doing more than the film or it just helped me learn a little more. I want to know though, do you have any stories of filming Tromaville Cafe with the early Tromets because it has such a 90s feel and look,

Zack Beins

which is obviously when it was made, but the humor in it is something special that you don't really see too much else in Troma movies or other medium.

Lloyd Kaufman

Honestly, it's all a blur. When was Tromaville Cafe?

Zack Beins

That was probably around the mid-90s, like right around a little bit after the inception of a trauma team video?

Lloyd Kaufman

Jeez, well, my hunch is that if it was really funny, that James Gunn had something to do with it because-

Zack Beins

I think some of those are a little bit before his time.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh, before James Gunn, now let's think. Because Gabe Friedman, well, James Gunn, Gabe Friedman, responsible for great stuff, Funny, you know, funny short stuff.

Lloyd Kaufman

I wonder who, Tomb of the Cafe, I just can't remember, I don't know. Yeah,

Zack Beins

no worries, it's just one of those things that I've always-- - I'm glad you enjoyed it, that's great. They're just so funny and seeing like Debbie Rashawn interact with Kabuki Man and just Action Come News Reporter and seeing everybody just being so giddy and excited to talk about screenplay

Zack Beins

It was just one of the things that made Troma stand out to impressionable high school Zach Bynes.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, that's really great to hear, let me tell you.

Zack Beins

With all of the movies, was there any movie posters that you liked that stuck out, where you're like, "This is one of the coolest movie posters we have"?

Lloyd Kaufman

That's a good question. I did love the Scream play, since you mentioned Scream play. I love that film. It's so good. Yeah, it's amazing, yet we couldn't give it away.

Lloyd Kaufman

It was in black and white, you know, and when it came out, it was not, we had 35 millimeter prints.

Zack Beins

I did an episode on that one.

Lloyd Kaufman

Now I think screenplay would be great, but the idiots don't wanna, well maybe it is on, I don't know what's going on with our streaming, but I think-

Zack Beins

It is on Troma now.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I meant not those idiots, I meant the ones on Amazon and, no, they are not, The people running Troma now are doing a great job. And thank you very much. No question about it. No, the other things.

Zack Beins

Oh, just like Paramount or, you know, the big-

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, screenplay may well be on some of those, but when it came out, nobody would touch black and white. Nothing.

Zack Beins

And it's-- - Nothing. That movie is so cool because- It's amazing. It's like a weird noir, like the Cabinet of Dr. Calgary, if it was a noir movie. It's so cool and it's just like the story

Zack Beins

of making a movie. It's George Cukor.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, exactly. So it's a historic and Rufus Sater, Sater liked the Passover meal. Yeah, Sater, what do you think of that? At any rate, yeah, you cannot have Rufus and milk

Lloyd Kaufman

in the same room, very important. Anyway, he has become a very important mosaic artist and a number of airports have his art in the floors and on the walls and mosaic. So he's a good spirit. I haven't seen him for a number of years,

Lloyd Kaufman

but he was a very good spirit.

Zack Beins

I would love for him to make another movie, but his artwork is crazy. And he's invented mediums, which is, that's just mind boggling. you could still be inventing forms of art and he's doing it, so.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, well also his movie, he did all the, this is before CGI and all that, and he did, Rufus Sater did all the, if I remember correctly, did all the opticals.

Zack Beins

Yeah, there's crazy opticals and rear projection and it's one of the more FX heavy trauma movies that's out there and because it's black and white, I don't know if people have given it the-

Lloyd Kaufman

No, that was the curse. Unfortunately in its day the black and white just wouldn't nobody and there was we did We did the VHS,

Zack Beins

but it didn't work and I like the tagline the special D colorized version.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes We tried everything

Zack Beins

But can you see beautiful movie and it's really funny. Yeah Can you talk more about some of the movie posters though that that were like your favorites that came through? I know like like Trisha Zemmick did a lot of like just beautiful artwork But like like if you had to pick a few of your favorite posters not movies But just posters that that have been on your stuff

Lloyd Kaufman

well In in the fullness of time certainly the iconic toxic Avenger Cartoony poster by Sid Blaise It's wonderful simple and but at the time when he made it In fact, even before he made it we had another poster Where you don't see Toxie's face, which is great. I love that one, too

Zack Beins

But that one where like kind of the Sun is behind. That's right.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, he's a Toxie silhouetted and it's got a great style to it but the Didn't you know we were hoping that people would want to know what does he look like Toxie the mistake? But you know, we since we don't advertise It was it was better to show Toxie's face and Sid Blaise did this wonderful very very penetrating image that is with the mop and and It's iconic now

Zack Beins

It's such like when you see somebody with the mop like it's right away It's so iconic like I think a Toxie but that could just be me but no you're right. It's right It's like kind of built into the American DNA at this point like that. Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah the phrase you mop It's become very popular President Bush just I mean President Biden just said that

Zack Beins

He's a big trauma fan from what I understand.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes. He is. He likes rabid grannies

Zack Beins

I I seem to seem to remember that beware children at play. He would show to his sons before bedtime.

Lloyd Kaufman

That's right Yes, exactly. Was it Gringo? Oh, Story of a Junkie. Yeah, I think he and Hunter used to watch that. They used to bond together, father and son.

Lloyd Kaufman

They would watch it in the Chelsea Hotel together. Story. That's it, could well be.

Zack Beins

So, you've been, you know, you have tons of fans and stuff around the world, And one of the things about trauma fans that I've seen there's some really rabid ones that have tattoos of the toxic Avenger or you kid you remember the first time you saw a trauma tattoo And what what did that feel like like that's got to be weird, right? I don't remember

Lloyd Kaufman

But I can tell you that I probably had to change my underwear. Let's put it that way That's good. That's a big deal that somebody would

Zack Beins

It's it's probably a lot more common to see trauma and toxic tattoos now But but I can only imagine like the first yeah

Lloyd Kaufman

Well my mind you said it and then occasionally this my face on people's Inner thighs, you know that kind of thing I think about that your face Yes,

Zack Beins

exactly not always tattooed oh

Lloyd Kaufman

That's another podcast. That's my university days. (laughing) My salad years.

Zack Beins

The salad tossing days. The tossing salad years.

Lloyd Kaufman

(laughing)

Zack Beins

One thing I like in your career is that there's definite, like here is this era, the sexy comedy era, or as people refer to, you know, like the toxic avenger through Kabuki Man, like the golden era. and then the new era where it starts with Tromeo and Poultry Geist,

Zack Beins

was there a conscious effort to kind of go more shocking from Kabuki Man, which is a more friendly movie than Tromeo, and they kind of become more offensive as they go on to some viewers. Was that a conscious effort, or is that just kind of the evolution that was natural?

Lloyd Kaufman

good thing you tacked on to some viewers.

Zack Beins

I don't think they're offensive. I was waiting for that, believe you me. 'Cause I show the movies to friends and it's, you know, this is what it is. It's a work of art, but they're like, oh my goodness, you know, the Pearl Pluchet.

Lloyd Kaufman

You have to tell a lot of people, you know, they don't get it, but they're gonna do.

Zack Beins

And we officially first met on Poultry Geist. Yes we did. So my first few weeks there I was scrubbing the McDonald's, just keeping it clean. And I remember one day you came to the church before I met you and I did not have a job that I was working on. They were like, "Do you want to meet Lloyd?" I was like, "I don't want Lloyd to see me not working the first time." Like,

Zack Beins

"Mr. Kaufman, I really like the Toxic Avenger. Thank you for letting me work on your film." So the first time I met you was inside of the chicken bunker and you came up to me and you were like, "You went to Columbine, right?" And we just kind of hit it off right off the bat where you and Gabe... To Columbine, I couldn't possibly have said that.

Zack Beins

No, no, I don't think so. No bad taste.

Lloyd Kaufman

That was Gabe Friedman, he said that.

Zack Beins

But you trusted me and Richard.

Lloyd Kaufman

That was Richard Taylor, he said that. Yeah, it must have been.

Zack Beins

The fog of time.

Lloyd Kaufman

Exactly. It clouds things over. I was getting you to the prayer meetings. We had 7am prayer meetings, don't you remember? And you and Richard, I tried to get you to come.

Zack Beins

It was 6am rap, 7am prayer meetings. Yeah, you went to,

Lloyd Kaufman

couldn't get you to do it. Anyway, go on.

Zack Beins

But you, but just from that brief interaction, and you remembered the, like me and Richard made a short film for the Toxic Avenger 21st Anniversary DVD, and you and Gabe remembered that. And you trusted us with doing the blood on that film, which little did we know when we were like,

Zack Beins

of course we'll make the blood for this movie, that that was gonna be a whole nother-

Lloyd Kaufman

20 hours a day of mixing various types of blood too, because you can't just go with the sugar. Yeah, you can't always do corn syrup. Sometimes it's gotta- It clogs up the surgical tubing. Higher extinguishers and yeah. Well, not that so much, but the tubing, it really clogs up.

Lloyd Kaufman

No, you're right the fire extinguishers. Yeah, otherwise, that's why it looks like water when it comes out

Zack Beins

Yeah but like you had us all all learn on set Richard calls himself the R2d2 of Tromaville because he was stuck inside that meat grinder That's right. Like spinning that around and spraying blood out

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, that meat grinder was quite a feat I mean poultry guys is for the money it was again under half a million bucks. That's a 300 chicken Indian zombies in the middle of the night and and singing and dancing and The whole thing we had a we lived in a church, which was where we shot the section. Yeah

Zack Beins

So that was funny. We were allowed to shoot sex scenes inside of the church. That was okay

Lloyd Kaufman

But also you had a lot of sex scenes inside that church for this lot of hookups in there

Zack Beins

Inside of that church was very it was the natural pheromones permeating through everything

Lloyd Kaufman

mixed with a delightful politically correct sauce of swamp ass To make a perfect burrito the aroma new trouble exactly But I was ironic because keep going you were saying we can the

Zack Beins

Hamburger McDonald's place. Yeah, the McDonald's wouldn't let us shoot. No nudity.

Lloyd Kaufman

No nudity there

Zack Beins

That was not okay at the most Rob McDonald's in America.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, where is that? And it was abandoned, you know

Zack Beins

We had all the people coming up either looking for jobs or shooting at us. That was horrible

Lloyd Kaufman

and then the church is where we replicated part of the American chicken bunker and that's where the sex was.

Zack Beins

Well, I think that's funny too. Beautiful sex. We We went out one of the few

Lloyd Kaufman

It was glorious. It was everybody close set with about 200 people on the set

Zack Beins

I was not Invited on that close that those were that that was the only days I was not not on there But I will say my my sleeping bag was underneath some of the people on those Nice lucky you Scrape that off before I would I would have liked to be that sleepy man the black mold Oh is envy it. I was envious of that black mold of that But I've heard from other people who've worked on some of the newer trauma films like

Zack Beins

Return to Newcomb higher shit storm or even citizen toxi that poultry guys was probably one of the more grueling of all the shoots From your perspective. Would you agree with that or was some of was there a harder film that you shot?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well the documentary about the making of poultry guys is hilarious but it's the unvarnished truth of how difficult it is to make a trauma movie and you see the You see if right the camera guy almost got The director of photography got I don't know if he will you see yeah, he started a fistfight fistfight and almost got his ass kicked and

Lloyd Kaufman

people fall in love and and Proposed in the documentary and I mean there's everything going on in that and you see how difficult Poultrygeist was to make and what a jerk I was in a large part of the event screaming at people and And then in the middle of the night we chose to shoot the nighttime scene with 300 zombie Indian chickens The shortest night of the year so battling the clock and the DP insists that it's time for a cheeseburger

Zack Beins

We need pizza.

Lloyd Kaufman

No Yeah, we had to be cheeseburger so we had to give him an hour whatever it was Losing daylight and he's inside reading and he's the only one he's reading a newspaper with his feet legs crossed And he was a good great guy just somehow in that movie he became the

Zack Beins

Kind of the bad guy in the behind-the-scenes.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah. Yeah, it's weird because

Zack Beins

Have you have you talked to you? Have you talked to Brendan Flynn after after that or do you know how he feels about how he showed up in that documentary?

Lloyd Kaufman

I Don't know. I don't recall. I don't know that he's been in touch since then. I think he lives in Europe Beautiful wife.

Zack Beins

Okay, I believe he has a knockout one one thing that the documentary doesn't show which took me aback and Made me realize one thing I want to do how I run my sets was at the end of the day no matter the arguments or Like sometimes during shooting like you just might not like any of us might not like each other because we're at ends artistically or whatever but at the end of the day when we wrapped you went around to every single person on set whether it was the the lead person or

Zack Beins

Somebody who was driving to and from set and you personally thanked them and it wasn't a lip service Like you could tell it was a deep heartfelt. No, thank you you said and that's something that none of the behind-the-scenes documentaries show and That really really impressed me that that was something that you did and I I've taken that to heart on everything I've ever done after that to like it meant a lot on especially on some of those tough days on poultry guys like We're arguing in in a shit-covered bathroom.

Zack Beins

Oh Yeah, like that was probably the worst day for me on set was Joe Fikers Joe flyshakers shit day

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, the diarrhea exploding diarrhea.

Zack Beins

It just nothing worked right and we were all angry with each other But yeah, it was a tough day. You still gave us a heartfelt. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean seriously

Lloyd Kaufman

People sleeping, yeah, I mean it's not that long ago I was doing that, you know, I'm practically doing it to this day, learning to shit in a paper bag, you know. I mean it's, I can feel it, it's in my blood, you know.

Lloyd Kaufman

I'm still grabbing the bread from the free breakfast if I'm up early enough or whatever. By the way, the breakfast here in the-

Zack Beins

That's what I, I'm gonna sample some- I don't wanna say the name of the hotel,

Lloyd Kaufman

but apparently it's really great. That's what I hear. Free omelets should come in. It's too early, that's the problem. Very early.

Zack Beins

Yeah.

Lloyd Kaufman

Speaking of poultry guys with eggs.

Zack Beins

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Exactly.

Lloyd Kaufman

No yolk.

Zack Beins

Yeah, you're cracking me up. (laughing) We shall not do that again. You are so shellfish. You're very shellfish. (laughing) Well,

Zack Beins

I wanna kinda jump a little more to #ShakespeareShitstorm. Okay,

Lloyd Kaufman

but we may have to kind of wind this down because I'm getting weak, but we could all go out and have a bite to eat if you want.

Zack Beins

I think we'll wind this down after this, but I do wanna-

Lloyd Kaufman

We can do another session too.

Zack Beins

Oh, we'll definitely have to. I think this'll be the good kind of, the intro to Lloyd, and we'll do more on that. But just a couple more things before we really wind down. Sure, sure. So I watched Battle of Love's Return before this weekend, and I noticed-

Lloyd Kaufman

No, this lip gloss is very sweet, it's rather tasty. Ooh, ooh, you're right, it is. Nice, yeah.

Zack Beins

But anyway, so I was- I want more. I was watching Battle of Love's Return, and in one of the opening scenes of that film, your father quote Shakespeare. And I noticed at the end of #ShakespeareShitstorm that you're probably similar in age to when he shot that

Zack Beins

as to when you shot #ShakespeareShitstorm and you're giving your soliloquy. And it felt like, and I've heard you say in other interviews this might be the last movie you direct. And it felt like kind of like a perfect bookend of your filmmaking career. Was that intentional or was that?

Lloyd Kaufman

No, not intentional, but I certainly was extremely moved by the Revel speech, which is the scene you're talking about and the fact that my daughters are in the shot with me talking about Revels now are ended. These are actors are just, these are just dreams and we are such stuff

Lloyd Kaufman

dreams are made of and meanwhile my daughters are in the scene and you know kind of has several yeah I mean I did tear up luckily our crew took so fucking long to put the lights on that I think I gave better rehearsals but I don't know if I've had I was a bit teary in that I don't know if any of your

Zack Beins

films that ever made me like weep before but that scene did. And I think it just shows through your career that you are a powerful filmmaker. Oh, thank you.

Lloyd Kaufman

Thank you. My stepmother, Sigrun, for whom #ShakespeareShitstorm is dedicated along with Stan Lee and John G. Avilson, she wept during Toxic Avenger. So we had the first screening. It was an investor screening and my father brought her,

Lloyd Kaufman

Sigrund, my stepmother, and Leni Riefenstahl and who brought a some kind of big German judge to see the first commercial, you know, first investor screening of the Toxic Avenger and it was a great evening.

Zack Beins

I don't know if you're fucking with me. Did Leni Riefenstahl actually...

Lloyd Kaufman

Yes, yes, because she'd stay with my stepmother and father. And by the time Toxic Adventure came along, she was interested.

Zack Beins

Oh my goodness.

Lloyd Kaufman

She showed up. And we didn't have, unfortunately, we didn't have digital cameras. I mean, if we would have had it, you know, it would have been great to film some of that. And she was literally staying with my father and Sigrun numerous times.

Lloyd Kaufman

And we had dinner with her, we went to, know did you you and us how to cook and with ovens I mean it must have been a

Zack Beins

gas did a special Thanksgiving did you and Lenny Riefenstahl share any tricks

Lloyd Kaufman

of the trade we well I was very my wife and I were like really didn't want to screw around because you know the woman it was one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. And she didn't, she was just a woman trying to have a career and if she had come to New York, Leonard Riefenstahl would have been cutting negative for Disney or something, you know, doing an anonymous, you know,

Lloyd Kaufman

woman, chattel, chattel. And so I understand that she had an opportunity and you know she was a movie star in Germany, very beautiful, these Alpine films. And you know, she served her time.

Lloyd Kaufman

I mean, what are you gonna... I don't think she really burned up anybody. There was some talk that she had something going with Hitler. historians have suggested that she defecated on Hitler. So I don't know if that's true. Maybe just a shitty rumor. I sure got a lot of bone around that.

Lloyd Kaufman

Amazing. But I want to know... Talk about serf Nazis. I did not create serf Nazis.

Zack Beins

You had the foresight to put it out.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, oh yeah, the stupidity probably. But that actually is a masterpiece. It's a beautiful film and when it came out it was a bit just the idea of Nazi. And we pushed it big at Cannes and luckily people saw it the right way. And Michael Hirs changed the title to

Lloyd Kaufman

Must Die. Rather it was just Surf Nazis originally.

Zack Beins

I think that, well, it's a funner title now.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, well, how do you criticize? You can't criticize it. It's a must-die, you know. It's not a... It was... people were pissed off by it. Even the Serf Nazis Must Die title back in the mid 80s. And I think we got lucky because Ebert or Rex Reed, one of them, was curious at Cannes and went to see it at the Cannes Film Festival. We went to theaters and went through...

Lloyd Kaufman

We had big posters in front of Carlton Hotel with "Surf Nazis Must Die." And there were a couple of serious critics who saw it and saw that it was a good film. With beautiful photography of the surfing stuff.

Zack Beins

I'm a surf movie nerd and like that's some of the best like of that era surfing footage.

Lloyd Kaufman

The guy who shot "Any Wednesday" for Director Red October or something?

Zack Beins

Yeah. I know who you're talking about.

Lloyd Kaufman

It begins with D maybe. Anyway, you know, it's a very good series director. But anyway, that camera person did the surfing in "Surf Nazis Must Die." Peter George is the...

Zack Beins

Also did "Young Goodman Brown." Yes, indeed. Another Troma classic.

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, also I'm a Rappaccini, I told you earlier. I'm a Hawthorne freak. So Peter, when he came to us with that, and it wasn't finished, and we finished it,

Lloyd Kaufman

and it had a star in it. I can't remember who it was, but sort of a star. But we lost our ass on that one.

Zack Beins

Well, I wanna wrap this up, But one thing-

Lloyd Kaufman

And Young Goodman Brown is a fine movie. It's Hawthorne, my God, what the hell? And we couldn't make two cents. Couldn't.

Zack Beins

Maybe it should have said, "From the director of 'Surf Nazis Must Die,' "comes Hopford's most explosive story,

Lloyd Kaufman

"Young Goodman Brown." Exactly, that's how we should have done it. Yeah, we should have done it that way. That's a great idea. Should contact Peter George. You should interview him.

Zack Beins

I would love to.

Lloyd Kaufman

Serf Nazis is all his and the producer's name slips my mind, but they're great guys and wonderful movie. They just were way ahead of their time.

Zack Beins

Oh, definitely. I wanna wind this down, but one thing myself and I know other people who love trauma and wanna know what is the future for trauma, especially in the next, like, after maybe you and Michael pass on, is the company gonna go to your daughters?

Zack Beins

Or what's the future for Troma?

Lloyd Kaufman

That I don't know, but to some extent, Troma has a life of its own. Certainly, the Toxic Avenger, among other things, lives on. So I imagine those movies would be, We want him to stay in a group.

Lloyd Kaufman

So I would guess at some point someone will pop up. But Michael Hirst is a bit younger than I am. I know he looks much older, but he is actually four years younger than I. And no, I'm joking. Michael is very, very attractive. He's funnier and nicer and much more attractive.

Lloyd Kaufman

But he just doesn't like the, he's very private. Very private.

Zack Beins

Well tell him I really want to talk to him.

Lloyd Kaufman

Yeah, no, no, don't worry, I will. my daughter Lily Hayes and Charlotte Kaufman who've been making a long-term documentary sort of inter dealing with the our family they want to talk to him too so you know and there's a guy writing a book about me you ought to talk to him he's he's a librarian of Dartmouth University oh cool and has a Yeah, freaky guy too, nice guy.

Zack Beins

Well, I really appreciate you coming on and being candid and we'll have to have you back, I wanna have you back on so we could talk more about like the terraformers and citizen toxis and like there's so many other, like there's so much, but like we can't have like a 12 hour interview.

Lloyd Kaufman

We can do it, I don't know about tomorrow because I have to leave it too, but we can do Zoom.

Zack Beins

Yeah, we could do Zoom, but this first one, it was important that we did it in person. Yeah, I'm glad we did it live, yeah. So thank you so much, Lloyd. And for those out there who don't know where they can follow you-

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, first of all, thank you, Zach Beans, for being so generous with your time and being you and Richard Taylor and Zach Fester, what? Eastman. Jack Eastman,

Lloyd Kaufman

Kodak, founder of Kodak's, incredible. (laughing)

Unknown

He's swimming in money, we'd be living in a penthouse right now.

Lloyd Kaufman

Came from Colorado, I'm sure. Anyway, thank you very much for spreading the Troma love in Colorado and getting that screening the other night at the C Cultural Center. That's because of your work with Richard

Lloyd Kaufman

and spread to the wonderful Colorado Film Festival of Horror and boy was that the best audience. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, great and you guys interacted with the fans and they loved you and Adam the killer zombie. That's Adam the amazing zombie killer. It's getting late, late out there for the...

Lloyd Kaufman

Well I'm on New York time too so I'm a little... and I'm sky high on cat tranquilizers.

Zack Beins

It all comes together. It's called Cheezing where you sniff the glands of the cat. Oh,

Lloyd Kaufman

thank you, I knew there was a name for it.

Zack Beins

Yeah, so you've been cheezing with us out here. But no, thank you so much. And where on the social medias can people find more about what you're up to or just trauma stuff in general?

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, I spend a lot of time on cheezing.com, very good site, really good.

Zack Beins

That's knockdownthemanholeclub.com. Well,

Lloyd Kaufman

the vegan cheesing, because it's a vegan podcast.

Zack Beins

They use almond butter, I think, to-

Lloyd Kaufman

No,

Zack Beins

boy butter. Boy butter.

Lloyd Kaufman

Boy butter, that's the official- With a sprinkling of nutritional yeast, right? That's the official butter of the old Troma team. Truffle butter. It's wonderful. Anyway, if you want to hear more about Troma, go to talk in trauma what they can learn all about yeah they Oh trauma now we

Lloyd Kaufman

should talk about yes trauma tell them about trauma is is the only place where

Zack Beins

Adam the amazing zombie killer is streaming and all the films I talked about on my show are on trauma now watch dot trauma comm and it's on roku and several other devices it's an app right yeah it's an app it's $4.99 a month Which is cheaper than all the the mega conglomerate about the first month. What is it? It's free what it's free.

Lloyd Kaufman

So you can cancel after a month.

Zack Beins

Yeah, you can just sign up with another email address And get perfect. Yeah,

Lloyd Kaufman

so why? What are we waiting for?

Zack Beins

Let's go all the old ex-trauma employees email addresses. You don't work there anymore So I'm about out of free

Lloyd Kaufman

FBI's going and knocking on all these people's stores

Zack Beins

stealing this guy who keeps watching Eve's Beach fantasy and being disappointed

Lloyd Kaufman

where's the penis I don't see one penetration I was looking for those Louis Sue films yeah well but it's a very difficult man but no yeah troma

Zack Beins

troma now is it's amazing and it's the perfect spot for me to do you what do

Lloyd Kaufman

What do you do, you go to the App Store and buy the Tromad Now app?

Zack Beins

Yeah, you just download the app and then you sign in. You create your login and it's free.

Lloyd Kaufman

And you can meet people there too.

Zack Beins

Yeah, so on some of the, like the phone app and on the website, there's message boards underneath the movies and you could talk back and forth. I know sometimes you participate in that as well.

Lloyd Kaufman

I have participated, yeah.

Zack Beins

And yeah, you could leave a little review on the movies on there. Sometimes you can ask questions about the making of the movies, and I've seen some of the filmmakers hop in on there too. - Yeah, I'll come on

Lloyd Kaufman

and talk about it. And the commentary track. If you, for example, let's say you wanna see the Sergeant Kabuki Man NYPD, and learn why it's less disgusting than most of our movies. you can get that on Troma now.

Lloyd Kaufman

You can get the movie and then you can watch it again with the commentary and a lot of the questions are answered there.

Zack Beins

Are even the drunken commentary for Cannibal the Musical, which is-

Lloyd Kaufman

Well, that's a trade, Matt, they were way ahead of their time.

Zack Beins

And that's probably one of the most infamous commentaries

Lloyd Kaufman

that's out there. Oh, that's hilarious, yeah, and they were funny. And the thing is, there's hundreds of young men who were getting drunk and they're not funny. And you listen to the commentators, Oh, Jesus,

Lloyd Kaufman

it's awful. I mean, they get- It's like being with a drunk at a cocktail party. They get so-- - They were beat together.

Zack Beins

Yeah, you know. They get so drunk, they turn the microphone off at some point during the commentary. Trey and Matt are hilarious. - It's still hilarious.

Lloyd Kaufman

Trey and Matt are great. Yeah, yeah.

Zack Beins

But awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lloyd. And I always like to wrap it up with the crowd. Everybody out there, stay traumatized.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh, thank you, Zach. Thank you. Thank you, Zach Bean, and thank you to the good state of Colorado.

Zack Beins

Ooh, and thank you for your warm embrace.

Lloyd Kaufman

Oh, oh, hold me, hold me. (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]